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  1. #1
    Ranged Creep

    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    56

    Forgotten heroes of old school DotA

    The only few heroes that have been often hyped about are techies and centaur, probably because techies is one of the more unconventional ones and centaur being predicted for the next release. Excluding the new heroes (which I have no idea what they do at all), I feel that it is time to reintroduce the forgotten old school heroes of dota.

    Terrorblade
    Arguably one of the best carries in the game, you get an overpowered metamorphosis that gives you good range and good attack speed while being able to clone up to 2 of it. He can be considered somewhat of an anti carry with his first skill, creating a reflection of a targetted hero which slows and attacks him. His ultimate switches your current hp with the hp of a target, which is basically a slap in your opponent's face if you manage to pull it off. Back in the old days, people get dagon just to do the sunder-dagon combo, I'm expecting that to happen after the release of terrorblade since dagon got so much viable recently.

    Medusa
    Used to be seen in competitive together with alchemist, like how we saw antimage vs morphling lineups during TI2. Fell out of favour after people realised anti-mage was a good counter to her. First skill is split shot which does the same thing as gyrocopter's flak cannons, except with reduced damage and no shot limit, somewhat of a range battlefury. Hoping to see that all split shots are able to carry orb effects so that we get to see some medusa when she's released, otherwise she's quite useless. Second skill is a nuke which travels through enemy units and deals damage while stealing mana of units that have a mana pool, otherwise known as medusa's ricing skill. Third skill is a shield that allows her to lose mana in place of her hp which explains why anti-mage counters her. Ultimate dramatically slows enemies who are facing her, and only recover slowly over a period of 5 second. One of the more useless old school heroes in my opinion.


    Troll Warlord
    Probably attacks the fastest within the game on an overall basis, used to be pubstomp carry of choice. His first skill allows him to switch melee/range whenever which allows you to dodge projectiles if you time it correctly, the melee form gives a bash. Has some sort of a nuke which whirls around him while in melee and point targets while in range. 3rd skill is a passive which allows him to attack faster with each consecutive attack and his ultimate is a global buff which gives allies and yourself faster attack speed.

    Bristleback
    Has not been in slight relevance to the metagame for around 3 years. First skill is a goo which you have to continuously stack on your enemy. Napalm is indefinitely superior to goo as its easier to land (harder to juke), and the slow effects are better. Bristleback's second skill is quill spray which similar to goo, you have to continuously stack on a unit to see its cumulative benefit, otherwise, the damage is quite insignificant. 3rd skill is a passive which gives him reduced taken damage if damage is taken from his back (Rubick has magic resistance in an AOE without having such shenanigans). Ultimate is a buff increasing damage and movement speed if you maintain your combo of goo and sprays.

    Lord of Avernus
    Appeared for quite a bit during Happyfeet/Mineski's reign, was the last time I saw him in competitive. Quite versatile as a hero, you can play him as support/tank/utility/carry. First skill is a nuke/heal depending on who you use it on. Second skill is a shield which you can play on allied units, explodes and deals damage to enemies if damage exceeds limit. Third skill is a passive which slows the enemy you are attacking and any allies attacking the unit under the effect of your passive gains an attack/movement speed buff. Ultimate allows him to absorb damage taken for a period of time, automatically activates if health falls below a certain level. Good for diverting focus fire, don't see the point though.

  2. #2
    Ah, ZSMJ Medusa ;)
    \
    Also Bristleback is just a totally douchebag hero, completely worthless if he doesn't have a good start with no chance of coming back. And if he has a good start he's an unstoppable asshole.

    Abbadon is simply a cool hero. Ultimate is kind of pointless unless you're going to be a carry, giving such a great survability skill to a support hero is a waste. Shield is amazingly undervalued, I once managed to kill 2 people alone outside of lane with it by casting it on myself 3 times (everyone was lvl1). Death Coil is not that good of a nuke, but useful as a heal and the short cooldown is good. His passive is good overall, but not amazing. Biggest problem is almost no synergy between skills.

    Troll is a massive dick in pubs. Permabasher, pretty much unkillable without massive focus fire with BKB + Satanic. He has been used in competitive by like 1 team.

    The only thing I expect from Terrorblade is LightOfHeaven's Terrorblade carrying.
    I am as I shall be.
    Einz, Two, Trzy

  3. #3
    Roshan
    Joined
    Nov 2011
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    Serbia, Novi Beograd
    Steam ID
    GGMikey
    Posts
    1,959

    they are afraid that sd centaur combo might break the game and create big blackhole that will destroy the world
    Follow me @MikeyDOTA2 featuring 24/7 badass tweets.


    I work full-time for 17173 Media Group as Project Manager of @2PDota
    Hosting bunch of projects troughout Dota2 and other game titles.

  4. #4
    Wildkin
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Steam ID
    csd_kop
    Posts
    407

    1st thing) Medusa magically splits her shot into five arrows. These arrows deal a lower percent of her normal damage. So it has a limit. A really long time ago I think it was 9 targets, but was kinda op so it changed.
    2nd thing) When she was picked among with alchemist, morphling was also a top tier pick. It was like Nv.cn vs LGD 1st game zsmj gets medussa and Zhou morph, then 2nd game the other way around.
    3rd thing) If you really think dussa is useless, I can't argue with someone like you.
    4th thing) If Abaddon's ulti is useless, same as the 3rd thing.
    There is no progress without support/.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Lithuania
    Steam ID
    Vaikiss
    Posts
    361

    Quote Originally Posted by MWaser View Post
    Ah, ZSMJ Medusa ;)
    \
    Also Bristleback is just a totally douchebag hero, completely worthless if he doesn't have a good start with no chance of coming back. And if he has a good start he's an unstoppable asshole.

    Abbadon is simply a cool hero. Ultimate is kind of pointless unless you're going to be a carry, giving such a great survability skill to a support hero is a waste. Shield is amazingly undervalued, I once managed to kill 2 people alone outside of lane with it by casting it on myself 3 times (everyone was lvl1). Death Coil is not that good of a nuke, but useful as a heal and the short cooldown is good. His passive is good overall, but not amazing. Biggest problem is almost no synergy between skills.

    Troll is a massive dick in pubs. Permabasher, pretty much unkillable without massive focus fire with BKB + Satanic. He has been used in competitive by like 1 team.

    The only thing I expect from Terrorblade is LightOfHeaven's Terrorblade carrying.

    fuck focus fire i rather skill stats shacle and pewpew

  6. #6
    Tournament Admin
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    394

    you missed out on quite a lot of things...

    Terrorblade
    I guess you missed the last changelog...Metmorphosis doesn't transform and clone anymore, it's now two separate spells and you can only conjure one image...also you completely ignore his "Reflection", a slow that deals 70% of the unit's damage to all units in an aoe...

    Medusa
    Where to start...Medusa has always been one of china's most favored heroes, and is the main reason a lot of people still have the "chinese 60 minute afk farming one teamfight" stereotype towards the chinese scene...mystic snake is not his "ricing" skill (that's split shot, you already compared it to a ranged battle fury, two shots later in the game and the creep wave is gone), it's his "lane control" spell - get it up to level 3 and you pretty much need to only hit 3 units (with mana), to get almost all his mana back -> spam to infinity and beyond -> constant harassment -> profit
    Medusa never really fell out of favor iirc (I didn't follow DotA since Dota 2 "came out"), she was perma banned in pretty much all chinese tournaments, considered the hardest carry of them all (common picks beside here were alch, morph, weaver, Spectre, Sylla)...in Europe she wasn't as picked since she really needs Linkens+1 to be of any effect...
    When you call her useless, please tell us, why you think so - in the current metagame of pushing and the more and more popular hardcore aggression ganking? I agree, she wouldn't find herself comfortable in this meta...but don't ignore that she too had her time to shine, and was considered THE not-useless hero of the chinese turtling-scene...

    Troll
    If you don't really know about the hero, please don't try to explain it to newcomers..."some sort of nuke that whirls around him", seriously? Just for information, his second spell varies depending on which form you are in (you pointed that out already...):
    Melee: "Some Sort of Nuke that whirls around him" -> Axes whirl in a circle around you, the circle expands, then it comes back to you. Enemies hit by it take damage and get blinded for 60% and 4/5/6/7 seconds...
    Range: "Troll hurls a fistful of five axes in a cone shape. Axes travel up to 900 range, slowing and damaging enemy units." -> minor damage (75 on all levels) but a 30% ms slow...

    won't comment on the others...also, why didn't you comment on the likes of TC and Pit Lord (which are definitely more interesting to the prof scene then Troll), Phoenix, Tuskarr (you already count them as being "new")...?
    o
    L_
    OL
    This is Schäuble. Copy Schäuble into your signature to help him on his way to Überwachungsstaat.

  7. #7
    Roshan
    Joined
    May 2012
    Location
    Germany; Bodenseee
    Posts
    1,091

    btw abaddons spells have synergie in form of I stay at ur but and fist u and u cannot do shit against that.
    slow that makes u faster, shield, low cd high range 250 dmg nuke with 75! mana cost and 125hp cost. and ofc totally unkillable with ultimate. (best synergie is when he lets the shield explode by using his nuke =450 burst into ur face)

    bristleback is well most fun hero. yay spam ALL the buttons. good counter to ensnares, since u can just turn ur back onto them and they deal 1/100000000000000....... dmg. continue spamming buttons and eventually turn on them and kill them with 3 hits per second in a total value of 500 dmg per hit.
    Im a tree, not Roshan^^

    "Timeline" of hero introduction

  8. #8
    Ranged Creep
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    52

    TC, Pit Lord ? )

  9. #9
    Ranged Creep
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    52

    Phoenix, Tuskarr, Shredder, Legion, Ember, Slark, Zet, Dragonus, Auroth, shitty hereos which need to be fixed

    Techies - delete

  10. #10
    Ranged Creep

    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    56

    Quote Originally Posted by Helga View Post
    you missed out on quite a lot of things...

    Terrorblade
    I guess you missed the last changelog...Metmorphosis doesn't transform and clone anymore, it's now two separate spells and you can only conjure one image...also you completely ignore his "Reflection", a slow that deals 70% of the unit's damage to all units in an aoe...

    Medusa
    Where to start...Medusa has always been one of china's most favored heroes, and is the main reason a lot of people still have the "chinese 60 minute afk farming one teamfight" stereotype towards the chinese scene...mystic snake is not his "ricing" skill (that's split shot, you already compared it to a ranged battle fury, two shots later in the game and the creep wave is gone), it's his "lane control" spell - get it up to level 3 and you pretty much need to only hit 3 units (with mana), to get almost all his mana back -> spam to infinity and beyond -> constant harassment -> profit
    Medusa never really fell out of favor iirc (I didn't follow DotA since Dota 2 "came out"), she was perma banned in pretty much all chinese tournaments, considered the hardest carry of them all (common picks beside here were alch, morph, weaver, Spectre, Sylla)...in Europe she wasn't as picked since she really needs Linkens+1 to be of any effect...
    When you call her useless, please tell us, why you think so - in the current metagame of pushing and the more and more popular hardcore aggression ganking? I agree, she wouldn't find herself comfortable in this meta...but don't ignore that she too had her time to shine, and was considered THE not-useless hero of the chinese turtling-scene...

    Troll
    If you don't really know about the hero, please don't try to explain it to newcomers..."some sort of nuke that whirls around him", seriously? Just for information, his second spell varies depending on which form you are in (you pointed that out already...):
    Melee: "Some Sort of Nuke that whirls around him" -> Axes whirl in a circle around you, the circle expands, then it comes back to you. Enemies hit by it take damage and get blinded for 60% and 4/5/6/7 seconds...
    Range: "Troll hurls a fistful of five axes in a cone shape. Axes travel up to 900 range, slowing and damaging enemy units." -> minor damage (75 on all levels) but a 30% ms slow...

    won't comment on the others...also, why didn't you comment on the likes of TC and Pit Lord (which are definitely more interesting to the prof scene then Troll), Phoenix, Tuskarr (you already count them as being "new")...?
    Sorry for late reply, forgot I started this thread a month ago. About the unfamiliarity with Dota 1, I have not played Dota 1 since the later patches came out (>6.72), or haven't played the heroes with the latest skills so I don't really know that a lot about the new skill changes etc. Tauren wasn't a really old-school hero, in my opinion at least, as it was released in 6.56(?), Pit Lord went through lots of changes that I don't even know what skills he has now, I only remember that he had a firestorm skill, a pit skill which stops units within, a creep exploding skill and a mass teleportation skill. Same for troll, I wasn't really familiar with his nuke, rather it was his blind that I recall.

    On the Chinese scene, I haven't really followed them shortly after the 2 IGs were formed. That was my last memory of the Chinese, until they showed up in Dota 2 about 5 months ago. If I recall correctly, it was the era of Alchemist, Morphling and Medusa until they realised that Alchemist was actually inferior to ranged carries, especially in 60 min Chinese games where supports are able to farm up ghost scepters and force staffs. Thereafter, anti-mage rose in popularity, and the Chinese usually rushed a Manta on him as it burns through Morphling's and Dusa's mana incredibly fast. The metagame then changed after the Chinese adapted some things from the European playstyle. Then on Medusa was pretty much out of the scene, and even the Morphling fell in popularity. Chinese started getting more aggressive, as they realised the importance of taking early towers, heroes such as Lycan and Syllabear started to show up in competitive.

    Just to clear up some confusion, I'm not saying Medusa is useless throughout the entirety of competitive Dota 1, she had her time during 2010 with the 3 big carries of China, Zhou, Burning and ZSMJ. The europeans tried to imitate the Chinese success with Medusa, but the playstyle was just too different too aggressive for a 4 protect 1 strat and hence the lack of success. I agree that snake is more of a lane control rather than a farming, though it's quite inexpensive on your mana to use if you get returned mana from the snake/perseverance rush. However, laning phases can be incredibly short, with enemies going with 5 to push lanes. She has no real escape mechanism to push lanes on her own, and there are much better heroes to turtle/flash farm with . So she doesn't fit in ganking, pushing (split shot only effective after she has 200++cs farm), and isn't really an ultra late game hero (PL, Morph, Void, Anti-Mage are way better here).
    Last edited by Pffft; 11-09-2012 at 07:16 AM.

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