New dota player champion observations

[Haaspac]

I am new to dota2 but I played LoL for about 2 years or so and I know that game inside-out, backwards and forwards, and even upside down. I got my beta invite for dota 2 a couple of weeks ago and I started out by playing bot games with a new champion each game to start to learn the champion pool, and learn the items BEFORE I go to playing vs humans. I havent gotten through all the champions but I will soon enough.

Of the champions I've played, there were a few I came to like. Doombringer, Outworld Destroyer, and Clinks. OD probably being my favorite with DB and Clinkz tied for second. Where can I learn more about these champs? build's, strats, item choices etc.

In addition to playing these bot games with new champs each time, I watched the join dota masters, the defense, and gosu league to get a little more educated an learn to follow the game. OD was picked 1 game and the other 2 I mentioned were not picked even once. Why? OD completely demolished the other team, it was so one sided, but then, mysteriously, he was never picked/banned again. Anyways, after this weekend it seemed that dota's tournaments are just like LoL's in that 20% of the hero pool is picked/banned every game while 80% are generally, largely ignored. Also everyone was talking about Lycanthrope like he is some kind of god tier champ, but of the very few times he wasn't banned, the team that picked him lost. I never saw Lycan's team win a game.

[Maltheo]

They are heroes. Not champions.
And the only way to learn what works and what doesn't in certain situations is by playing. Or watch high-level play of said heroes.
Guides are generally bad, most guides list stupid things as being core(Like some guides telling people vlads is core on bounty hunter.)
And OD is so early game dependant and so easy to shut down. Most teams will shut him down and he'll be a non-factor because if he has a bad early game the entire game is almost lost for him, he doesn't really have a way to recover, like say, a shadow fiend that can farm faster than most heroes.
Also BKB makes OD shit during the duration. And most other carries don't need too long to kill him.

And there is way more than 20% of the DotA pool in play, there are just something called top-tier picks and picks that favor the current push oriented play more.
And lycan does everything to fit 100% perfectly into the pushing line-ups and one lost teamfight against lycan means that you lose your rax.
Also a team wont give lycan to the enemies if they don't have a way to handle him. You'll never just give out lycan without a way to handle him, like EG did against mouz, they got raped by lycan later on because they practically only had slows.

Lycan is banned so much because in a team that wants to push, he is too good.
If you lose a teamfight you are 100% sure to lose a tower, if your team is out of position, you'll lose a tower, and he can snatch roshan anytime you're not near it.
He's a great hero for the current meta.

And here's something you need to understand: Everything is situational, nothing is set in stone in DotA, if you go into a game with the mindset that you're going to get X item on Y hero, you've already made yourself to be a bad player that can't adapt to what he needs to have/do. You need to adapt.

[Purgatus]

Go to the guides section of playdota.

This is a collection of guides for the original Dota, but since this game takes almost all its ques from the original, they are all still valid.

They offer a great starting point to learn any of the heroes you like.


OD is a very hard carry, but he is fragile in the early game. Today's Meta is very gank ( and Push) heavy, so OD is very vulnerable. If you can get him farmed to the late game he can really destroy, but games don't often get to the point where he really gets in gear due to how fast teams push down towers.

Lycan is good at so many thing. He can Carry, Push and Gank with the best of them. That doesn't mean that the team who picks him will win, Dota just doesn't work that way. If a team gets the right heroes and strategy, he can be shut down just like anyone else.

[justforseeing]

well.. since there are more heroes even now than LoL so every character has practically more counters on average when compared to lol(which will shift even more when you get 108 heroes, while LoL will still have ~73+4/5), since you are new, i d say you consider yourself new too, welcome to dota and congratulate yourself on joining the best forums for dota (personal opinion)!

OD ,like the above post said, is stinkingly situational, and what i meant when i said above that you should consider yourself new is that dota is ATLEAST as deep as LoL can go, and you have ALOT to learn about these heroes and the competitive side of this game yet, i d say to keep following the competitve scene (i started it alot later in my pseudo-career) and try to learn every hero/char out there and their common tips and tricks and strategies.. I think its way too early for you to give out comments on how a hero is powerful or not, but nonetheless, OD is strong, but this will seem the same on many other heroes that you will find out about sooner or later since compared to LoL, every hero has a very powerful set of spells which may seem OP, i didnt play LoL much but i can tell since every new player coming in thinks the same, so try some more heroes, which you think the pro players ban out the most or pick/ and then slowly start moving towards learning the map, so as to learn juke points, ward spots, creep stacking/pulling etc and seeing out items.. Guides are available in this website or playdota.com (if you can bear the dota 1 images), but ultimately like Maltheo said, try out different item combos on different heroes and then take which suites you the best and remember, you MUST ADAPT to every single game once you become good enough in this game otherwise the default item builds WILL FAIL YOU..
In the end, Welcome again! and hope you enjoy this game, and dont forget to anticipate the extreme forms of trolls and retards out there. Peace Out!
Now go learn how chess is played on the checkered board after your experience with the casual checkers!

[Lt.Tibbles]

If you're looking for some guides theres Dota Fire which has some guides for Dota 2 and then there is also playdota.com which is the WC3 version of Dota's site that also features guides for all the heroes, he's called Obsidian Destroyer in the WC3 mod version though and the item icons will be different but I think you'll be ok, here are some links to some different guides for OD.

http://www.playdota.com/guides/cripple-the-weak
http://www.playdota.com/guides/the-w...d-shall-perish
http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide...ngwithdean-606
http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide...mid-guide-1368

Try not to take them as end all be all builds like Maltheo said a lot of things are situational these guides should be used as just a guideline for the most part and some of them also offer some tips and tricks that you may not have known yet.

[Haaspac]

Any thoughts about Doombringer or clinks?

[alife]

In these times there are not that much skilled/novator EU/NA teams to know how to play all the heroes. That is why there is about 30% of heroes in use.
The best way to learn how to play some hero - play him a lot, maybe u would fail a lot but soon u would be a master on that hero.

If u want to watch high-level games - i'd advice u to watch SEA/Chinese teams playing.

Also i would advice not to trust to Maltheo
Lycan does fit in most of pushes but not in all of them. Also he needs not to be fucked early into the game. But as we all know early on he is more vurnable than OD.
There are two things:
U either know how to play against some hero or u don't. Lycan is hero that is hard for most of those teams to handle...

Also if u want to play Lycan u need some nice micro and macro control (first not to be fucked by Neutrals and second not to be fucked by some gay-raid with smoke).

[Maltheo]

What do you want us to say?
Doom used to be popular and good but then his laning phase got stomped in the nuts when his base armor went down the drain, ontop of that he's not really that great for pushing, but he works, but he's a niche pick.

Clinkz works just fine, as mouz has proven multiple times. He's a fine and stable carry that works decently in todays meta, he's not a top pick but he definitely works, Black^ seems to get farm on him where you normally wouldn't find it. Clinkz requires the enemies to not put too much early pressure on since he doesn't handle it well.

And don't listen to Alife, he suffers from the dunning-kruger effects and thinks that he knows more than professional players.

[alife]

There are a lot more styles/strats than just pushing.
Personaly i hate pushing and the one of the reasons for me to hate it is: pushing doesn't require skill. U just need to get "right" heroes for it.
If i'm not mistaking DTS (old ones) were first who made Clinkz into competetive D2.

[justforseeing]

Doom is a good hero, but he rather can play two main strats which have their own strengths and weaknesses which make him a situational pick, first is the max devour/farmer strat where you concentrate on farming basilius+vanguard then either a quick radiance or a vladimirs+platemail towards Assault Cuirass or Shiva's.. You go your safe lane (bot for radiant, top for dire) and dont leave it until you farm them items.
Then theres the solo mid doom with maxing LVL? Death with any ganking items like urn, or mid game items.
For the first build, there are better scalling carries which result with more bang for the buck (unless doom farms quite faster than them) while for the second one, there are risks involved with enemies having correct levels to utilize your nukes and giving up any potential better solo-mid with more nuking power.. Try both of them and see which is better for you + your team..
A tip is to go out in the jungle and devour a creep with auras or a strong abiltiy like Wolf/Centaur/Kobold/Troll to benefit you and your team.. devour one of them and then devouring a lane creep doesnt take-off the ability.. Keep experimenting with the different eatable neutrals and use the one most suited to the game time, (for eg kobold early game, centaur mid, wolf late game).
Clinkz is rather harder to utilize since you part gank/part jungle for the whole game after you get treads+1 oblivion staff, but he has a good damage potential and tower razing abilites if timed well.. basic items go to treads-orchid-monkey bar-heart/skadi/butter/manta/black bar.. He is a semi-carry, in other words, suited more to mid game pushing line-ups with good tanky/teamfight heroes.. He s an auto counter to chen/enchantress since they deliver you free yummy creeps, Tips for him go towards jungling after you get power treads and 1 oblivion staff, and ulting on the fattest creep in the camp.. Just remember to change your tread to intl when you ulti and then switch back to str/agi to your liking. Also look for kills if you can while in your ulti's effects, otherwise you are just too squishy!
P.S. if you like jungling heroes just for the sake of it, try enigma (with the default in-game build), N's prophet (with clarities and RoBasilius), axe (with stout shield(s) and tangos), lifestealer (with stout and leveling feast), Lone Druid but i ve heard its harder to jungle than in LoL early game.